This resource is hosted by the Nelson Mandela Centre of Memory, but was compiled and authored by Padraig O’Malley. It is the product of almost two decades of research and includes analyses, chronologies, historical documents, and interviews from the apartheid and post-apartheid eras.
03 Dec 1994: Zwelithini, Goodwill
POM Your Majesty, it's been I think a little over a year since we last talked and some very big changes have taken place in South Africa and perhaps you could just review those changes and tell me what role you, the monarch, have been playing in shaping and developing the new South Africa?
KZ Well, as you will understand, there are some problems actually to solve since transition took place which actually have made people to understand the problems of South Africa only to find that it was not actually for myself to allow my people to go for elections before the role and the powers of the Zulu monarchy had been addressed in the new constitution of 1993. As you know the negotiators were IFP people, actually some of them have represented the King, but now it happened that there was an incident that took place in March, if I am not mistaken, when there was a shooting in Johannesburg.
POM At Shell House?
KZ At Shell House, which actually was very depressing to each and everybody working for peace in South Africa. I know that there are some people that have been killed, which actually it was not accepted by the people of South Africa and the outside world, although we know that was coming from the ANC side, but we know that there was some killing that has taken place in our country since 1984 as you can remember very well. So now because we are very much interested to see change in South Africa, to crush the system of apartheid which actually was very oppressive to our black community, not giving any chance to do anything possible for the people and for gaining power to address the problem to the former apartheid system.
So, what we have seen after our people have been encouraged, as you remember the Skukuza Accord that was taking place, the meeting that took place in April with myself, the President of the ANC, President de Klerk and the Minister of Home Affairs, we were trying to get from them to clear out how the Zulu people are going to be accommodated in the whole new structure in South Africa because there was nothing which was actually put up about the Zulu monarchy in the new constitution. That was worrying me so much that I made it known myself, where am I going to be accommodated and whether the government should understand the role of the Zulu monarch in South Africa. Being a leader of more than any other leader in South Africa, race group, the Zulu people are more than any other race group, not in politics but traditionally, the region of Natal is Zulu, it is belonging to the Zulu monarch and the Zulu people. And then the other race groups that are living in this region they need to accept the truth of the Zulu monarch that he is the owner of the region. Not that we are trying to push away from being part and parcel of South Africa but now the Zulu status is different because of its historical background and the way how the other race groups were showing their respect to the Zulu throne. It would be very difficult for us to sit down and look at the constitution makers in order to consider the Zulu monarch in the new dispensation because as you know my people are spread all over South Africa so now they need representation.
That's what I've made myself, to take the initiative, I've noticed that political parties seem not to come to settle themselves down. They are still fighting for power but now I accept I have a duty to do, to show to the world when I travelled with my people to Pretoria to speak to the government of South Africa about the respect that the government should show and the status of the Zulu monarch in KwaZulu/Natal. Actually I was pleased afterwards that the parties were content at taking the initiative which has made myself to let my people go for elections because it would be very difficult for me actually to allow my people to go for elections before this problem has been cleared out. So now I am not ruling the political parties, I am ruling the Zulu people. The political parties should know very well that the King is a symbol of unity in this region and then the King should accept everybody, it doesn't matter if you are ANC, IFP, National Party, you are Volksfront, whatever, whether you are PAC or AZAPO, but people must know that the King is a symbol of unity of all the parties, the King cannot stay in one party. Either the King cannot be seen aligning himself with other parties because the King is above party politics, he is a symbol of unity. So now with this new dispensation I think it gives the Zulu monarch a role in the region to be the monarch in KwaZulu/Natal, which actually enrols everybody and some of the race groups in this region they have accepted that, that the Zulu King is their King. It doesn't matter what nationality they belong to, but they will have to respect the traditions of other race groups that are living in this region. I wouldn't like to see my people being disturbed to practice their own traditions in this part of the world because being Zulus we have got some things that are of interest to us, like the British people who have got some of their interest in their own traditions like Indian and Moslem communities.
So now at this point of time we are looking at the structures where the government of today will look at the structure of the Zulu monarch as something of importance in this region, not that I want to break away from the Republic of South Africa because economically we are depending on each other and economical structures of South Africa do not exclude Natal and KwaZulu but they were part and parcel of that. So now I need to see how things really should be, I mean to be modified for the interest of our people and what we want to see at this point of time is to see this development how it could be structured. So now with the old dispensation that has taken place in South Africa we are so pleased that things have come to an end where all race groups are part and parcel of this country, especially when we look at the structure of the government of national unity where all the parties are involved in upgrading the standard of living of all people in this country and how and where they are standing together. As far as peace is concerned that can easily be achieved in this country if all parties agree coming to a change. So there is nobody who can fear of anything whatsoever because we can't actually let this country fail after elections have taken place, there is no-one who is thinking that there is some structure of this type that will take place in South Africa after elections have gone and people of this country made a way of peace process in the country.
POM I would be remiss if I didn't ask you about the rift between yourself and your Uncle. As I remember last year and the year before how you had said and he had said that you would never allow the Zulu people to be dominated by the ANC which was really representative of the Xhosa tribe. One, what's the nature of the rift between yourself and your Uncle, and two, do you no longer believe that the Zulu people will be dominated by the Xhosa-speaking ANC?
KZ Well let me come back to the rift you are talking about. I don't whether, I know you are not the same as ... but now we need to look at the frame, we need to look at the structures of South Africa, and I won't talk about rift because as far as I am concerned I know no rift, that must be clear because I have never been heard by anybody saying anything about a rift. So now there is only one person that talks about the rift, it's him, so I have never been heard saying anything whatsoever about what the rift is about, it's only him. We need to look at the change, we need to look at peaceful structures and we need to look at a change where people must look at it as a challenge because if we can talk about a rift it would be wrong because as far as I am concerned I know no rift. He is the one who keeps on saying things unnecessarily as far as I am concerned. It actually has got nothing to do with the rift in between the nation, I am not the one who believes in positions. I own no political party, I cannot talk about a rift then because the people that I am ruling are the Zulu people. But if there is any political leader that will take an advantage of misusing me for his own interests I will not allow that, I will never allow it and even the ANC I will never allow it and I am not belonging to any political party, I am just by myself and I will never be supporting to any political party and I will never be a member of any political party as it is.
But now when he goes around and talks, he talks about ANC taking the King or either misusing the King, this is not true. This is not true as far as I am concerned. What I would like to see is to get the people in peace, living in peace, because there have been a lot of divisions between the ANC, IFP and other political parties who have been fighting for their own political interests. Those are my people who have been dying. They were not people of IFP, ANC and all that but because they are leaders of political parties who are fighting their own interest. I would like to see my people living in peace, not that I believe that the Zulu people can be dominated by the Xhosas. We are not talking in those terms. These people are sitting together in parliament and all the laws of this country are handled by all political parties and then I wouldn't like to be seen as I have been negotiating with all the leaders of this country and then when it comes to the leadership of Mr Mandela and then be seen not negotiating with him, because he is the government and the leader of today, the same as other government leaders of this country. That is wrong. Well I think so for those who think that maybe the ANC can dominate the Zulu people. People need not fear about that because I am not the one who can make that, I am not the one who has the permission of the ANC, I am not the one who has the permission of IFP. My leadership is just for the Zulu people, it doesn't matter where they belong. I can not create or either accept division. So the rift that the news media is talking about they didn't get it from me, they get it from him. I never utter a word and I will never utter a word.
POM Do you see a different role for the monarchy in this new South Africa than it had in the old South Africa? Have your powers as monarch been spelt out sufficiently for you that you are satisfied with your position or will you look to have additional authority?
KZ Actually my position has not been handled very well by the previous introduction of the system of the government of National Party. The National Party government, I am definitely sure that they will willingly give more and better powers to the Zulu monarch which actually there was Zulu government though very limited. They were saying by word of the Zulu monarch because they know there is no other way to avoid that because they know that I am their King, but when you look at the structures they were not meaning anything as far as everything is concerned.
POM Has that changed now or will it change in the new final constitution?
KZ There are some negotiations at the moment and we are still waiting for international mediation also to take place, which actually the government is still busy with a lot of things that are taking place but we got a promise that after the elections the government will look after this and we are still pushing on those basic things for the status and the role and powers of the King to be sorted out.
POM But you are satisfied with the progress that has been made to date or is it too slow in coming? For example, we have talked to all the Premiers in the last couple of months and they all complain about how slow the central government is to devolve powers to the regions.
KZ To the regions. Actually that is very problematic because it makes no-one to settle down, but it depends on what the government is, how this will evolve with the change in South Africa. So now with this region it's going to be, it's going to be very difficult to look at other regions. It's not the regions which actually tend to combat with other regions because this region has got a King, has got royalty, which actually even the outside world knows very well and the other regions know very well that where there is a Zulu monarch it is certainly different. So now when they gave the power, when the national unity government gave power to the regions they will have to look very carefully when it comes to this region because there are a lot of things of interest in this region, the government will have to consider royalty facts before they think of giving powers to the Premiers and the Cabinet of this region.
POM So you would see a monarchy that would have far more powers than it had in the apartheid era?
KZ Actually that's what the government of national unity must consider because the matter of the Zulu monarch was negotiated before the new dispensation of the new constitution of 1993, that it must be amended and then it has been amended and we need to hear and to see the government of national unity considering more interest of the Zulu monarch in this region than anyone.
POM Would you have representation in the Constituent Assembly when it is drawing up the final constitution in 1995/1996?
KZ In Cape Town? Actually they will have to do it and then they will have to look at our proposals because I don't think really things need to be done in the way that it can suit, I mean the government of national unity, it must be done in our traditional manner because we've got our own traditional ideas and traditional structures of how the status of the Zulu monarch could be allocated in the new constitution. But the only thing that people should understand is to understand more traditions of the Zulu people before they do anything.
POM What role do you see traditional leaders playing in the new structures and what would be the relationship between those traditional leaders and yourself?
KZ There is no difference on that when it comes to tradition because the Zulu monarchs were very much respected by other traditional leaders in this country and they knew very well that even the powers of the Zulu monarch are not the same as others. So now, I don't think there is anyone who can look at the Zulu monarch structure as something of the new and their way of respect to the Zulu monarch by other leaders than can be changed because they still show their respect as it should be. I don't know what plans they have but as far as the respect is concerned there is nothing of change. But I know that there are some other traditional leaders who are involved in party politics. I am not supportive to that, I am not agreeing with that because once you are belonging to a certain political party you will have to work for that political party, you will have to do a lot of possible things for that political party. But now when it comes to the ruling of the people your own people, you will find that they are divided because they are belonging to different political parties. So how can you make those people understand each other if you are belonging to a certain political party when you are a traditional leader? If all the traditional leaders could move out of politics and rule the people, they need to move away from political parties. That is the only solution that can sort the problems in this country, [that if you are belonging ... for their own people and for their own members of political parties ...]
POM Should the people be ruled by their traditional leaders or be ruled by political parties in a government? Where is the division of power between the two?
KZ Actually the government of the past was not coming from traditional leaders and then even the President of today does not come from traditional leaders he comes from a political party. Like the others of the past particularly the traditional leaders were accepting their leadership. How much more when the black man who is a leader that he cannot be accepted? That would be wrong because this is for the first time that this country is led by a black President so we need to show our respect as we have shown our respects to the other leaders. It would be wrong if we don't show such respect to him. But this makes more change that we can negotiate about our roles.
POM Just before the election you and Mr de Klerk, President de Klerk at the time, he signed over a lot of land to the Zulu Kingdom or was it to you?
KZ To the Zulu monarch.
POM To the Zulu monarch. And my recollection is that the ANC disputed that when the new government came into being.
KZ There something that people need to understand in this country and that is land. The land that President de Klerk had signed is the land where I am sitting and the land where most of the traditional leaders are sitting. There is no new land that the government has signed. It is not land that has been signed, it's the land that was governed by the Zulu government and it is still the same land which the King was ruling. But now in the new constitution of 1993 there was an amendment of the Zulu monarch being the King of KwaZulu/Natal which actually was not happening before. It doesn't mean that those lands that have never been signed for where my people are living, where my people are not living, that it is that those lands are belonging to the King. But the land where the traditional leaders and the Zulu people were living those are the lands which the government has signed for.
POM Do you see the future under this new final constitution in which not only the Zulu monarchy but all the traditional leaders would play a much bigger role in governing the people?
KZ I don't think the new dispensation is something that can be looked at as a threat, except with their communistic ideologist beliefs, because we know that communistic ideologists seem not to understand. But as far as the right and the good take in the country it is going to be to the benefit of that government if they can still consider the traditional leadership as something not of the past but even of today because there are too many traditional leaders in South Africa which actually need their status to be looked at by the government. So if the government is black we need that black government to consider more what was not considered by the white government in this country if they want to see peace. Because actually the imperatives we have seen, the problems that they have created in separating people and making the wars between the people themselves, because it's in every political leadership, has been desperate for power, has made people to die in this country and it doesn't help anybody and it doesn't help the political leadership saying things are good when you look at the people being killed every day.
POM I remember that you referred a couple of times last year, and I think you referred to it the year before, that when Mr Mandela was released from prison he was to have made a visit to you and gone to Shaka's grave and he never kept his commitment. Have you and President Mandela since made up your differences?
KZ Well as far as, we are talking about the new dispensation, we are not talking about what happened in the past, now I didn't quarrel with Nelson Mandela myself, he is the President of this country. If all political leadership have made their ideas available to each other it would be wrong for the Zulu monarch to find himself not considering or either looking at President Mandela as the leader of this country. That would be wrong because this country, where we are now and President Mandela is the head of state unlike the previous President, President de Klerk, which actually I was negotiating with. When it comes to that, he is in power now, he is a man who can do anything to anybody and we need to show our respect to him. I know that it was difficult for him to come to a point where we get together, but now, even now he can do anything. I need to show my respect as he shows his respect to me because President Mandela doesn't look at me as King of the Zulus only. He has said that many times, that you are also my King, it doesn't matter that I am the head of state in this country but you are also my King, traditionally, and he also says that, you are also my King. The problems of the past, we are not talking about that, because if we can talk about the problems of the past that would mean that we will have to look at all the mistakes that apartheid has been doing against us for all these years and then that would mean that you have got crisis, so that would mean that there is no peace that would be created in this country.
POM So when the government passed this law establishing a Truth Commission which will look at the wrongdoings of the past, do you think that's a good thing to have, that it will bring people together, or that it might create more divisions and preclude reconciliation from taking place?
KZ It depends who does what he does, what was brought under the carpet, that would depend on that. And those who are in fear of anything, of the wrongdoings that they have been doing, they can be in fear of that. I am in not fear of anything. If anything comes out about me I need not to run away from it because that would mean that I have done it. It will depend on how this Truth Commission has been formulated.
POM Do you think it is being formulated in the right way?
KZ Well the only problem is that I am not in the parliament myself because I think this was negotiated by all the government of national unity, all of them together, and then they came to a point where they agreed with each other that let's start with these gentlemen. So I was not there, even if I like it or not, the government has let it out. I can't argue with that because there may be a law that this must be done.
POM There is a lot of talk about the RDP, the Reconstruction & Development Programme. Do you get a sense that the average person knows what that is all about or that it's just kind of three letters that really don't make any deep impression on them?
KZ We need to look at what actually the government of the past has been doing when it comes to the development of the country. All these RDP ideas were not got by ANC, they have been got up by the government of national unity. You know it's very confusing to hear people sometimes say that don't be supportive to this RDP which is very wrong when all of them are sitting around the table in Cape Town and talking about these things. When they come out and they tell the people not to be supportive to the RDP, so now I don't think the government needs to impose this RDP but they need to ask people what they want, not do like the government's of the past who used not to ask the people what they want in their areas to be developed. I know that the rural areas have never been looked at as the developing areas. Most of the development that's been looked at on the infrastructure side and border industries, where the industries need to be brought into the people where people can manufacture things and then sell it where they need to be sent. So now this RDP fund are people's funds, it's just a name, RDP it's been called. You know I can hear some other people always saying, no this is the money for ANC trying to buy people. The ANC is not ruling itself there alone but the people that are there are from a political party where they agree on with this RDP budget, instructions, and the money needs to get to the people and to do anything that people want but not that the government should impose those funds how they must use alike, because they must look at the interests of the people but they need to ask people what do they need to be done by these funds. Not that people need to criticise this RDP structure because we have never argued about it, something that came out from parliament to the people. The way people always talk about this fund, it's very much confusing to see that this is the ANC because ANC wants to buy people and all that. Right, if that money it is for good, why don't we structure ourselves as the people of this country how do we want these funds used?
POM Do you think there's a role for yourself in implementing the RDP in KwaZulu/Natal?
KZ I understand that all the regions have been invited, like this region, the budget that was given was two billion for this region, so it has been budgeted for the people and if this development comes, it comes itself. It's not brought by the people to be used for the interests of the people except if there is somebody who is playing his agenda, that is not known, telling the people not to use those funds, not to take those funds, but he must tell them where to get funds because it's no use to criticise the types of structure why you are not going to tell the people what they must do because this region is eaten up by this high unemployment. We are the highest unemployment region in all these nine regions. But now we need to cut down this problem of unemployment by occupying our people with job opportunities, but if the money is not getting to the right people for sure it's going to do something else. It's wrong sometimes when people are criticising, not to tell the people what they must do after that if they are not going to use those funds. Because as far as I am concerned there is no way that Mr Mandela as President of this country has come out with so much money from jail. That is our past, that they have made budget out of it.
POM Sorry, there's no ...?
KZ I say there is no money that Nelson Mandela came with from jail. We are taxpayers. When the government makes budget he makes budget with the money that we are being taxed from. So if those funds are not being used in the right way you are not going to get funds because there is no-one who has promised us to get the budget from somewhere.
POM Do you see yourself as taking a leadership role in promoting the RDP?
KZ No I don't think I need to take myself like that because the funds have been sent to the people, that is the government of Natal that must consider the interests of the people of this region, not myself as the King. But I would like to see my people being developed. If there is somebody who tells the people not to take ... on using those funds, he must tell them how they are going to get funds to develop this region.
POM Have you been travelling abroad in the last year?
KZ I have been to Taiwan last year and then I have been to Portugal this year, just for a holiday in Portugal, but in Taiwan I was there as the guest of the state and then they took me around and looked at some development projects which actually they are of interest, and to invite the Chinese to invest in this country. They have been so good, not like other countries who ran away. I think Taiwan has done a tremendous job because our people have been accommodated to their industries.
POM How do Zulus look at themselves? Do they look at themselves as South African first and Zulu second or as Zulu first and then South African?
KZ We are living in South Africa, Zulus as far as I am concerned, I am glad of being a Zulu in the Republic of South Africa. So I see no reason why the Zulus shouldn't consider themselves as Zulus in South Africa and part of South Africa. They are Zulus first and then South Africans.
POM Have you found your people being very supportive of the role you are trying to carve out for the monarchy in the new South Africa?
KZ This is of interest to the Zulu people, they would like to see the monarchy being considered and they are very supportive to that.
POM So when you look to 1995, what kind of political developments do you see happening in the country?
KZ I don't think I can prophesy on that because I don't know what is going to happen in the years to come because there is a lot of change taking place and there is a lot of development taking place in all different types of politics in this country, development and all that. It will depend on the acceptance of each other. I cannot prophesy how things will be like in the future.
POM Do you think the government of national unity is doing a good job, a very good job or just average?
KZ I do understand very well that people when they were told by political parties that they would do this and this and this, they are always doing that when the man is elected, the leader is going to say things. That is important. People need to appreciate it because we have suffered by the apartheid system in this country for a long time and if people seem not to understand that they will always look at things, things that must change immediately which is not going to happen immediately. Even Rome was not built in one day, it took them seven years. There are too many walls that have been structured by other people in this country, especially for the white people, so they need to look on all sides, but they need to look at all sides to accommodate everybody, even the white community in this country, not to accommodate only blacks in this country because this country cannot be filled by only one race group but it needs to be filled by everybody and everybody must know that he is part and parcel of the country, not under the carpet.
POM Do you think that the government of national unity should be made a permanent feature of the constitution, that it is better to have all the parties in it?
KZ I think that what Nelson Mandela has done really is something prestigious as far as we are looking at how we are structured in the beginning, the government of national unity because there is no-one that is not part and parcel of the government because there are some ministers that have been elected from other political parties which actually is showing that he is a man of peace. He wants to see everybody participating, contributing towards the development of this country. That is something which has never been seen before. I don't think there was anyone else in the Conservative Party being the MP in the National Party government. Nelson Mandela has done something that not a single country has done.
POM Do you think it should be made permanent?
KZ Yes I think that would be nice because it can create more peace and it should be there because people participate. It is something that has never been had in any country in the world.
POM From reading in the newspapers and from talking to people I get the impression that there is still a fair bit of conflict going on between the ANC and the IFP in KwaZulu/Natal. Is that your impression or has the violence died out completely?
KZ You need to look at how things happen in this country. I am not supportive to the conflict, I am not supportive to that. I know that everybody has got differences but I see no reason why when people have got differences that they should create conflict between themselves because first of all I see no reason why they should fight, or either the ANC has lost and I see no reason why ANC can still look at themselves as enemies to the IFP. It's very wrong because it seems to me that people have never been told the truth of change and how the leadership has gone but now that's why I say that sometimes it's very difficult for the people because they seem not to know the agenda of their political leadership in all spheres. I'm not mentioning one political leadership but I mean all political leadership that their political parties are involved. But if people want to create peace or either if they want to make peace within their region they need to do some compromising between themselves and work together for the interests of the people because if they keep on conflicting themselves it's the people that are conflicting, it's the people that are dying and not a single one of those political leadership families have died in this conflict. It's just the people on the ground that are being killed now which is very wrong.
POM What role does religion play in your life?
KZ That question is connected with?
POM What value do you get from your religion that allows you to function as a better monarch?
KZ First of all I do believe in something that maybe people still don't understand. When God created man He created a man to live on this earth and to do something. So I do believe, as far as I am concerned, that as the King, and the people believe that the blessing comes from God to the Zulu throne and then the blessings the King takes to the nation. So now when it comes to Christianity I believe that the mercy of Christ is the saviour of the nation from Almighty God. And I believe that without Him I couldn't be on this throne, He's the man who saved me. And I'm afraid of nothing when it comes to that point because I believe that He is the only one who has brought me into this, who will take me to the throne. He is the one who can save this nation and I am praying for peace, I am praying differently from my people. Sometimes to come to a time when people will understand that it is only God who has made them where they are, that God has never created a man to create problems, it's only the man that creates problems for himself.
POM What do you think is the single biggest problem facing South Africa as it moves forward towards the next century?
KZ We need to look at the revolutionary structures in the world, actually the world is in a revolution at the moment. There are too many wars. There are some people actually who have never thought that South Africa would be in fact a single structure after the elections. God has done miracles for South Africa. Actually there are some other countries which are not supportive to that. We know very well about that. We need to see this country having wars and all that, killings must take place so that they can just be in their own interests in this country or either getting some of it, of the interest schemes on their side. But I am praying that God must help us not to let our enemies or are there any Christians in this world to enter or to ... our structures in this country. It can create a lot of problems. So, as I said, really I cannot prophesy what really, how things should be allowed in this country because it would be very difficult for me to prophesy how things are going to be, but I believe that it's the man that must bring peace to his own people.
POM Thank you very much.
PAT The ANC's position with the Zulu chiefs in the local context. Can you help us understand your own position and the monarchy and at the same time diminish the role of the local chiefs among their own people?
KZ Well as far as traditional leadership is concerned in the Zulu society, there is no threat as far as I am concerned because the chiefs in this region needed to look at ... They are not belonging to political parties and no political parties keep their traditional leadership if they cannot be belonging to the political party. But if they belong to it then they have got a difficult part. They will find themselves being a problem. But if they keep on ruling the people not to find themselves standing with some other political party, they can create problems. But if they stand by themselves I am definitely sure that even the people can accept that because people have never been belonging to, I mean the leadership was not created by money but it was created by their own loyalty and then they were given positions of being chiefs in this region to rule the people under the Zulu monarch and then accepting the government has got double agendas these chiefs wouldn't know, but as far as I am concerned and as far as the traditions of the Zulu people are concerned those are the binding forces because Zulus still believe in their traditions, unlike other race groups believe more in their tradition than ...
PAT Do you think that there will be problems with the local government?
KZ There is such a lot of noise from all the regions because they seem not to understand it. The government must explain to the people, it needs to be explained to the people how this local government is going to be like. The only problem is that the government doesn't go to the people to ask them how do they feel if this must be done and then to get the mandate from the people, not to impose because once you impose and then it will be wrong and then you need to look at the traditional structures of the people in that region and the government must help especially to motivate those regions, not to be created but to make it to understand that they are given an opportunity to look at their own traditional life, how to go.
KZ Actually that would depend on how that President is going to look back, whether he is going to create this or not. I think that's what happens.
POM Do you think if there were elections in KwaZulu/Natal next October that it might re-ignite the conflict between the IFP and the ANC?
KZ I cannot prophesy about that because all of us we are looking for peace and then no-one can predict how things are going to be like at that time because when elections take place no-one really can say how things are going to be like at that time because at this moment people seem not to understand this peace creation. It is not easy to say how things are going to be like. But what we would like to see in this region is peaceful structures. We have seen a lot of our people being killed and with their differences they must talk about the problems at the grassroots level.
POM OK. Thank you ever so much for your time and your straightforwardness. I interview many people and they don't answer the questions.