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This resource is hosted by the Nelson Mandela Centre of Memory, but was compiled and authored by Padraig O’Malley. It is the product of almost two decades of research and includes analyses, chronologies, historical documents, and interviews from the apartheid and post-apartheid eras.

12 Oct 2005: Maharaj, Mac

POM     At the time whatshisname had -

MM     Schabir Shaik had been charged, I think first for possession of state documents and had been subpoenaed under Section 28, refused to answer questions and he took the matter – in the meantime the Scorpions, my news becomes public, I ask for the First Rand enquiry, after that the Scorpions issue a Section 28 subpoena to peruse my files, he needs Schabir also to come and answer questions.

POM     He needs Schabir? Just Schabir?

MM     Yes, just Schabir.

POM     He doesn't say I need Schabir, he answers questions by Zuma and a plea bargain, he says if you get Schabir to answer the questions –

MM     On the Section 28 to close the file.

POM     On you?

MM     Yes. So I speak to Schabir and I say, "Look, it's your decision to answer on the arms deal. Will you consider answering questions on the question of the driver's licence thing?" I'm saying I have objected, I am going to court. There was no corrupt dealing between you and me, and yet for that I know a man who can go and tell. He says, "I've thought about it, I will do that." In this exercise he wants me to deliver Schabir and Mo. I say, "No." The good faith from his side was just not there. OK?

POM     The conference at Stellenbosch took place, the ANC Stellenbosch conference, the reconstruction of the file.

MM     Yes, the question of Mo realising that this false flag operation that explains all this – as far as I recall, according to Mo's testament, he had done that analysis before even the Stellenbosch conference.

POM     Didn't he present a paper on this some place?

MM     That's the analysis.

POM     OK, but was it on RS452 or on the theory of false flag, do you know?

MM     Yes.

POM     Sorry, on which?

MM     Specifically on RS452 and the false flag.

POM     So what I'm saying is that – Hefer makes a point of saying that, oh, it was only after the revelation of Vanessa Brereton as being RS452.

MM     No, it's not true.

POM     But that's what Hefer says?

MM     Well Hefer is wrong.

POM     He came up with this ingenious kind of –

MM     He's wrong. Mo's evidence is very clear and Mo's evidence, you will have to ask Mo, who did you show that analysis to?

POM     Yes I will.

MM     Get a number for Brereton.

This resource is hosted by the Nelson Mandela Centre of Memory, but was compiled and authored by Padraig O’Malley. Return to the Nelson Mandela Centre of Memory site.