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This resource is hosted by the Nelson Mandela Centre of Memory, but was compiled and authored by Padraig O’Malley. It is the product of almost two decades of research and includes analyses, chronologies, historical documents, and interviews from the apartheid and post-apartheid eras.

23 Apr 2005: Naidoo, Murthi

POM     Just again, Murthi, I would like to recap the event relating to Mac. That would have been that you were on your way to visit Tim in Cape Town.

MN     To visit Indres.

POM     Sorry, to visit Indres.

MN     I was given a parcel.

POM     You were given a parcel by Peter Joseph.

MN     To hand over to Tim.

POM     To Tim, and that when –

MN     I was unaware of what the parcel contained. But amongst other things it was a complete toilet roll where Mac had written in his very small, neat handwriting, the events that took place while he was detained and tortured. Everything was in detail. Obviously it having happened forty years ago I don't remember, I have difficulty in recalling what was actually in those statements. I do recall very vaguely something about a Last Will and Testament, that in the event of him being killed in detention what he had to do.

POM     And then this was read back to you when you were in solitary confinement?

MN     While I was being interrogated, it seems as though the same people that interrogated him, the same team interrogated me, and one of the interrogators I know was the notorious Swanepoel.

POM     Yes!

MN     Rooi Rus, and Rooi Rus was the guy that shot Indres when Indres was arrested, shot him in the shoulder.

POM     Yes.

MN     Then Swanepoel was also involved in interrogating Indres, myself, Mac and also Shanti.

POM     My, my. Then you said that one of them mentioned that they had great respect for Mac?

MN     Yes, because they kept saying that he was a hard nut to crack, they couldn't easily crack him. Look, I gathered from that statement that he was severely beaten up, that he was severely tortured, because I do remember what was written on that toilet roll clearly explained his torture and assault.

POM     Well listen, I hope I'll get to meet you when I come to Johannesburg.

MN     Where are you now?

POM     I'm in Cape Town, I'm living in Cape Town at the moment, but I did live in, or stayed for part of the year, in Johannesburg for quite a number of years, but I go there not as frequently as I used to but frequently enough. So maybe I will give you a call and we can have a cup of coffee and I can mark off one Naidoo. Where is Shanti now?

MN     Shanti lives in a suburb called Lombardy East. It isn't too far from Alexandra Township. She's married to a guy called Dominic Tweedy. They live in Lombardy East.

POM     That's a truly remarkable story about your Dad and Gandhi. It really is, and the turn from passive resistance.

MN     I'd like to get together with you and tell you more if you are interested.

POM     Lovely. I am indeed, I am indeed. Let's make that a promise.

MN     Yes, look whenever you're in Jo'burg please give me a call and we'll get together.

POM     Lovely.

MN     OK.

POM     OK. Thank you ever so much for talking with me.

MN     It's a pleasure. If there's anything else you need to know about the events of those years you're welcome to call me.

POM     Thank you ever so much. Bye bye now.

This resource is hosted by the Nelson Mandela Centre of Memory, but was compiled and authored by Padraig O’Malley. Return to the Nelson Mandela Centre of Memory site.